HV000
03-19 01:03 PM
Why not july 2006??
Well, atleast RIR/Pre PERM Backlog Applications can be processed. BPCs only closed in DEC 2007. So, some of them missed the Aug 07 deadline. I'm NOT against 2006 or 2007 applicants!
Well, atleast RIR/Pre PERM Backlog Applications can be processed. BPCs only closed in DEC 2007. So, some of them missed the Aug 07 deadline. I'm NOT against 2006 or 2007 applicants!
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chanduv23
09-28 11:25 AM
People are always prejudiced against something. If it is not race or ethnicity, it's country of origin, province of origin, class, gender, faith, or whether you are poor or rich. Even poor people have prejudices against rich people. And people tend to group with people who share their prejudice to fight against those who they are prejudiced against. It just makes life miserable for everybody.
But at least when the two groups who are against each other are about the same is size, you will feel less pressure. If there are very few foreign professionals working among a largely native population, they will feel a lot of pressure.
And thats exactly what is happening to us here. All these politicians are providing mere lip service to us and play their vote bank politics.
This is very much a reason that we need to unite and rise. Our own people have prejudiced opinions among us, like fulltime jobs versus consulting companies. MS degree vs under grad, US educated vs non US educated, and it goes on - the more divided we are, the more issues we face because the community opposing us is higher in number and are voting public.
If we do not unite and still continue to do things in small numbers, things will not change easily.
But at least when the two groups who are against each other are about the same is size, you will feel less pressure. If there are very few foreign professionals working among a largely native population, they will feel a lot of pressure.
And thats exactly what is happening to us here. All these politicians are providing mere lip service to us and play their vote bank politics.
This is very much a reason that we need to unite and rise. Our own people have prejudiced opinions among us, like fulltime jobs versus consulting companies. MS degree vs under grad, US educated vs non US educated, and it goes on - the more divided we are, the more issues we face because the community opposing us is higher in number and are voting public.
If we do not unite and still continue to do things in small numbers, things will not change easily.
sc3
10-16 02:48 PM
I beg to disagree. If it was the visa bulletin, then why did they process newer applications first?. That shows some disorder out there. Even when Amazon breaks up, they set their operations right. Here we are being fed the same story over and over again.
Coming to backlogs, they introduced perm before all the existing labor applications were processed and what happened after that?. All the existing applications were sent to the infamous backlog elimination centers. While those applications were waiting to be picked up, perm applications were being processed left, right and centre.
Firstly: If USCIS was reacting, they would not have approved the so called "newer" applications. USCIS had to use up the numbers so they took the path of least resistance -- not the right thing to do -- but it can't be branded as a "reaction" to the July 07 issue.
Second: When you say "approving" newer applications, are you saying approving older applications by PD or older applications by RD/ND (with older being 3-4 year older RD/PD)?? USCIS has never had to process applications by PD, only factor they have is RD/ND. PD just tells when someone can be approved (or apply), it doesn't get you any priority in the processing queue. I am sure you dont want the situation where you have your later PD, earlier RD, but someone who chose to delay his app to come with an ancient PD, but a fresh RD to get processed ahead of you (when both of you are current) do you?
I am bit out of touch, but isn't PERM/BEC a DoL operation not USCIS. Then again, those were the factors you have no control. Even when it was just the Labor Cert process, there had been disparities between various processing centers. Some people made use of provisions (sometimes fraudulently) to get their LCs through these "fast" process centers. I too have been affected by the Perm/LC situation, but I don't think USCIS is to take blame on that.
Am I defending USCIS: No, I am just saying if people want a Flower campaign, they should go ahead with it. No point putting FUD to stop people from doing what they want.
Coming to backlogs, they introduced perm before all the existing labor applications were processed and what happened after that?. All the existing applications were sent to the infamous backlog elimination centers. While those applications were waiting to be picked up, perm applications were being processed left, right and centre.
Firstly: If USCIS was reacting, they would not have approved the so called "newer" applications. USCIS had to use up the numbers so they took the path of least resistance -- not the right thing to do -- but it can't be branded as a "reaction" to the July 07 issue.
Second: When you say "approving" newer applications, are you saying approving older applications by PD or older applications by RD/ND (with older being 3-4 year older RD/PD)?? USCIS has never had to process applications by PD, only factor they have is RD/ND. PD just tells when someone can be approved (or apply), it doesn't get you any priority in the processing queue. I am sure you dont want the situation where you have your later PD, earlier RD, but someone who chose to delay his app to come with an ancient PD, but a fresh RD to get processed ahead of you (when both of you are current) do you?
I am bit out of touch, but isn't PERM/BEC a DoL operation not USCIS. Then again, those were the factors you have no control. Even when it was just the Labor Cert process, there had been disparities between various processing centers. Some people made use of provisions (sometimes fraudulently) to get their LCs through these "fast" process centers. I too have been affected by the Perm/LC situation, but I don't think USCIS is to take blame on that.
Am I defending USCIS: No, I am just saying if people want a Flower campaign, they should go ahead with it. No point putting FUD to stop people from doing what they want.
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crystal
07-02 10:00 AM
Currently Active Users: 1800 (489 members and 1311 guests)
Most users ever online was 1,801, Today at 09:58 AM.
Most users ever online was 1,801, Today at 09:58 AM.
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TeddyKoochu
09-10 01:45 PM
If USCIS wants to do another JULY 2007 they never learnt their lession. With the Quarterly/annual quota I dont think USCIS legally can make EB2 current. I hate another JULY 2007 for sure.
I would welcome another Jul 07 atleast it gives all EB2 / EB3 to be able to file for their 485's. This may not be very likely I agree with you. I can feel your pain with your PD but as Sumggymba has also said that it is extremely beneficial to be able to file for 485 and have EAD / AP.
I believe that what may happen when EB2-I/C preadjudicated numbers get exhausted is Option # 2) Keep accepting applications in a controlled manner so as to approve in quarter or year because this is what happened for EB2 ROW; again this is my personal guess / assumption, Iam not an expert on the INA or the law. Also those who have not been able to file for I485 cannot be kept in a endless denial with the preadjudicated numbers exhausted I think the chance will come for EB2 I/C either by Sep 2011 or latest by Jul 2012.
I would welcome another Jul 07 atleast it gives all EB2 / EB3 to be able to file for their 485's. This may not be very likely I agree with you. I can feel your pain with your PD but as Sumggymba has also said that it is extremely beneficial to be able to file for 485 and have EAD / AP.
I believe that what may happen when EB2-I/C preadjudicated numbers get exhausted is Option # 2) Keep accepting applications in a controlled manner so as to approve in quarter or year because this is what happened for EB2 ROW; again this is my personal guess / assumption, Iam not an expert on the INA or the law. Also those who have not been able to file for I485 cannot be kept in a endless denial with the preadjudicated numbers exhausted I think the chance will come for EB2 I/C either by Sep 2011 or latest by Jul 2012.
GreenCard4US
06-10 06:24 PM
For whatever reason, rumors are flying all over the Internet that the end of H1B and EAD employment authorization is at hand. This is complete nonsense. The purported basis for these rumors is an amendment offered in the Senate (S. Amdt. 4319) to a tax bill previously passed by the House (HR 4213). As written, this proposal would prohibit companies from filing H1B petitions if the company has laid off any employees in the last year. It would also void all existing H petitions for a company if the company lays off personnel.
Let's put this in context. Microsoft decides to lay off some of its loading dock personnel because they want to outsource that work. Under this proposal, they would then have to terminate all of their H1B engineers. That simply doesn't pass the laugh test.
Like most of Grassley's proposals, this amendment is pure idiocy. I suppose that's what happens when your parents are siblings. This bill has absolutely no chance of ever becoming law. .
Let's put this in context. Microsoft decides to lay off some of its loading dock personnel because they want to outsource that work. Under this proposal, they would then have to terminate all of their H1B engineers. That simply doesn't pass the laugh test.
Like most of Grassley's proposals, this amendment is pure idiocy. I suppose that's what happens when your parents are siblings. This bill has absolutely no chance of ever becoming law. .
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amitjoey
01-18 05:26 PM
Thanks Pappu :D (Pappu, left a PM, pl reply. Wouldn't mind if you don't come back , you are busy. Thanks)
Several hundred members ... only about 50 posts !!
That's true, once it is posted on a web site, most likely many members of that site will come read the thread. How many will read, will go on increasing each day, east posting.
Extraordinary effort perm2gc and others, please keep it up !!
Members , give it a thought ... give a free gift, more the members ...best our efforts.
Thanks to all of you who are helping with this effort. 57 new members in the last 2 days and another 100 new last week. It has been very effective.
Several hundred members ... only about 50 posts !!
That's true, once it is posted on a web site, most likely many members of that site will come read the thread. How many will read, will go on increasing each day, east posting.
Extraordinary effort perm2gc and others, please keep it up !!
Members , give it a thought ... give a free gift, more the members ...best our efforts.
Thanks to all of you who are helping with this effort. 57 new members in the last 2 days and another 100 new last week. It has been very effective.
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GooblyWoobly
03-20 02:09 PM
I have no idea why u guys get riled up about EB3->EB2 conversion? It's Not your Ration line FIFO. Are you trying to say someone who has 10 years of experience (5 years in the last company, so EB3) stands to get GC AFTER someone with no experience but a MS? There are many other loopholes through which EB3's can fall through. Just because you are frustrated with the wait, don't take it out on someone who is also on the same boat.
Also your assumption of "Reputed companies don't do EB3->EB2" is outright wrong. I work for one of the most reputed companies in the valley, and they do it on a selective basis (read, if you're good enough, they'll do it for you).
Remember this, someone can move to EB2 only if he qualifies to. It's not that you can just jump boat with no qualification. And if someone qualifies, I don't see why he/she should stay back!!
I'm a original EB2 filer (no EB3->EB2 conversion) and not a LC transfer. EB3->EB2 increases timeline for getting my GC. But I do not believe that's wrong.
Each one to his own!! My 2c.
Hi Coopheal:
With Due respects to your Seniority and Agony/ Frustration being retrogessed.
Standard Companies donot opt for having two I140s approved for a particular employees which is a "Logical Fallacy" of EB concept. Leave alone Rat Desi Companies.. They can do anything and turn the boards off..
If your arguement is right: first you have to stop L1s getting Gcs in less than 10 months.. (on an average). Porting EB3 to Eb2 is a big junk and disrepct to the EB2 Qualifier. Now, Qualifying Eb2, if you feel, is not a big deal, why the companies did not preferred it out for Eb3s in first place because lack of Job Requirements. (infact, this portings have to be highlighted to USCIS as Junk technique and illegal).
So the whole arguement doesnot workout. Soon, wait and see Portings would bestopped, with Desi companies messing itaround like Approved labors (infact, it isa refined version of approved labor scams).
Please donot jump on me.. its a waste of time.. But the logic holds good EB2 Vs. EB3. If allowed, People may even qualify for EB1, (People would work it out also sooner or later) Let's respect each other profiles.. and its a matter of time we are all there.
This is my Honest Advice.. Trust me. I am a 2003 eb3 victim.. No way to jump lines.. its inhuman.
Thanks,
Also your assumption of "Reputed companies don't do EB3->EB2" is outright wrong. I work for one of the most reputed companies in the valley, and they do it on a selective basis (read, if you're good enough, they'll do it for you).
Remember this, someone can move to EB2 only if he qualifies to. It's not that you can just jump boat with no qualification. And if someone qualifies, I don't see why he/she should stay back!!
I'm a original EB2 filer (no EB3->EB2 conversion) and not a LC transfer. EB3->EB2 increases timeline for getting my GC. But I do not believe that's wrong.
Each one to his own!! My 2c.
Hi Coopheal:
With Due respects to your Seniority and Agony/ Frustration being retrogessed.
Standard Companies donot opt for having two I140s approved for a particular employees which is a "Logical Fallacy" of EB concept. Leave alone Rat Desi Companies.. They can do anything and turn the boards off..
If your arguement is right: first you have to stop L1s getting Gcs in less than 10 months.. (on an average). Porting EB3 to Eb2 is a big junk and disrepct to the EB2 Qualifier. Now, Qualifying Eb2, if you feel, is not a big deal, why the companies did not preferred it out for Eb3s in first place because lack of Job Requirements. (infact, this portings have to be highlighted to USCIS as Junk technique and illegal).
So the whole arguement doesnot workout. Soon, wait and see Portings would bestopped, with Desi companies messing itaround like Approved labors (infact, it isa refined version of approved labor scams).
Please donot jump on me.. its a waste of time.. But the logic holds good EB2 Vs. EB3. If allowed, People may even qualify for EB1, (People would work it out also sooner or later) Let's respect each other profiles.. and its a matter of time we are all there.
This is my Honest Advice.. Trust me. I am a 2003 eb3 victim.. No way to jump lines.. its inhuman.
Thanks,
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piyu7444
01-30 04:15 PM
Good. That means you were in-status at the I-485 filing. Submit documents mentioned in RFE and you should be good.
>> My question is - Is the time I haven't been working considered as Out of Status?
No you are not. Like I said out of status UNTIL date of I-485 application is most important.
____________________
Not a legal advice.
US Citizen of Indian Origin
I read the thread and have a question for Desi3933 as he seems to have knowledge about how this works..........
I am on h1b with employer B.
Employer A had my h1b and had processed my GC. I applied for 485 in Jul 07 and then in Jun 08 I transfered my h1b to Employer B. I did not notify USCIS about this job change so I did not invoke AC21. (Lawyer suggested to leave it in case we get a RFE)
Now my wife's 485 application is tied with mine. She is on h1b with employer C. Employer C is a consulting agency and her contract will end today Jan 30 2009. Also we are expecting hence she will take a 3 month time off / vacation for the baby (permissible under law) starting End of April 2009. Further she will travel to India on Aug 1 2009 and will return around Nov 15 09.
She has worked only 1 month in 2009 this will be reflected on 2009 w-2. I have couple of questions:
Will she be considered as "out of status" from Feb 1 to April end?
She has h1b valid till 2010 so when she returns back to US in Nov 09 shall she use h1b or enter US on AP given the fact that 485 is pending?
Will you recommend getting paid from Feb thru May to cover the gap? (this could be done with as the employer is willing to help)
Thanks
>> My question is - Is the time I haven't been working considered as Out of Status?
No you are not. Like I said out of status UNTIL date of I-485 application is most important.
____________________
Not a legal advice.
US Citizen of Indian Origin
I read the thread and have a question for Desi3933 as he seems to have knowledge about how this works..........
I am on h1b with employer B.
Employer A had my h1b and had processed my GC. I applied for 485 in Jul 07 and then in Jun 08 I transfered my h1b to Employer B. I did not notify USCIS about this job change so I did not invoke AC21. (Lawyer suggested to leave it in case we get a RFE)
Now my wife's 485 application is tied with mine. She is on h1b with employer C. Employer C is a consulting agency and her contract will end today Jan 30 2009. Also we are expecting hence she will take a 3 month time off / vacation for the baby (permissible under law) starting End of April 2009. Further she will travel to India on Aug 1 2009 and will return around Nov 15 09.
She has worked only 1 month in 2009 this will be reflected on 2009 w-2. I have couple of questions:
Will she be considered as "out of status" from Feb 1 to April end?
She has h1b valid till 2010 so when she returns back to US in Nov 09 shall she use h1b or enter US on AP given the fact that 485 is pending?
Will you recommend getting paid from Feb thru May to cover the gap? (this could be done with as the employer is willing to help)
Thanks
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madhuthomas
01-16 12:29 PM
I Signed up for 20 $ recurring payments.
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nojoke
02-27 09:11 PM
I am tired of listening to depressing economic news and beating dead horse on this forum. I know you are also tired, but trust me this doesn't help anyone. I can say this because I come from area dependent on free-falling auto-industry ... yeah I am from Detroit.
Times may be tough, but we are making tougher for ourselves by re-hashing these bleak developments. Remember misery attracts misery!
Easy solution - Please don't be forced to read them.
misery didn't attrach misery -housing bubble attracts misery.
Times may be tough, but we are making tougher for ourselves by re-hashing these bleak developments. Remember misery attracts misery!
Easy solution - Please don't be forced to read them.
misery didn't attrach misery -housing bubble attracts misery.
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Ramba
04-07 05:27 PM
Rumor, rumor, and more rumors. We Indians get a kick out of this stuff, dont we? This actually happened with me couple of weeks ago.
POE: San Francisco. I hold a completely different job compared to my Masters degree. I was asked what qualifications I have to hold a job in marketing when my background was technology. I gave an explanation and the VO looked up and smile. He said, you memorized your answers well. I said, I've been doing it for the last five years. He laughed and said, you guys are smart cookies. Have fun, summer is around. NEXT.
Note to people who like to spread Bullshit: Please STOP spreading horsemanure. Unless your paperwork is completely out of whack, no VO at the POE has the RIGHT/AUTHORITY to send you back. I spoke to an immigration lawyer at a party couple of months ago. He said deportation procedures are not that simple. The VO has to call DHS and Immigration Services. Once they take over the case, it takes 12 to 24 hours to do a background check. Until that time, the person is held in custody at the Airport. A decent bed and food is provided. If the documents check out incorrect then authorities in the home country are informed and so is the Embassy in United States. DHS and USCIS allow folks from (Indian embassy) to interview the candidate (potential value target: crime recod back home, etc). If the embassy decides that the documents were forged then it will send a memo to the Indian Airport and ask the Indian police to book a case after the person arrives. The process is much detailed than making a call to somebody's father or father-in-law and asking, DO YOU NEED XYZ for this job.
So all this is dino-dung. Stop wasting time at your desk and do something productive.
Let the red-dots rain.
As you mentioned it can be a rumor. Or, it may be a very rare isolated case. However, I would like to say few words for the inspection and admission process at POE. There may be a lot of regulation regarding denying admission at POE. Ultimatly, it is upto the IO at POE to follow it or not. One cannot argue (or complaint with the supervisor) with them in the long line at POE to ask them to follow the rules and regulations; or you do not have your lawyer standing next to you in the line. You do not have much option at POE. If they want to flex their muscles, they can do it and deny the admission to any one without proper reason. Even if you have a valid visa and other documents US admission is not always gurenteed. However, 99.9% it wont happen. If the unemployment rate continue like this, it will not be a unusual to hear these kind of stories. Bottom line is IO at POE and consular officers at embassy has tremondus power; it is not easy (or question their decision) to overcome their decision.
POE: San Francisco. I hold a completely different job compared to my Masters degree. I was asked what qualifications I have to hold a job in marketing when my background was technology. I gave an explanation and the VO looked up and smile. He said, you memorized your answers well. I said, I've been doing it for the last five years. He laughed and said, you guys are smart cookies. Have fun, summer is around. NEXT.
Note to people who like to spread Bullshit: Please STOP spreading horsemanure. Unless your paperwork is completely out of whack, no VO at the POE has the RIGHT/AUTHORITY to send you back. I spoke to an immigration lawyer at a party couple of months ago. He said deportation procedures are not that simple. The VO has to call DHS and Immigration Services. Once they take over the case, it takes 12 to 24 hours to do a background check. Until that time, the person is held in custody at the Airport. A decent bed and food is provided. If the documents check out incorrect then authorities in the home country are informed and so is the Embassy in United States. DHS and USCIS allow folks from (Indian embassy) to interview the candidate (potential value target: crime recod back home, etc). If the embassy decides that the documents were forged then it will send a memo to the Indian Airport and ask the Indian police to book a case after the person arrives. The process is much detailed than making a call to somebody's father or father-in-law and asking, DO YOU NEED XYZ for this job.
So all this is dino-dung. Stop wasting time at your desk and do something productive.
Let the red-dots rain.
As you mentioned it can be a rumor. Or, it may be a very rare isolated case. However, I would like to say few words for the inspection and admission process at POE. There may be a lot of regulation regarding denying admission at POE. Ultimatly, it is upto the IO at POE to follow it or not. One cannot argue (or complaint with the supervisor) with them in the long line at POE to ask them to follow the rules and regulations; or you do not have your lawyer standing next to you in the line. You do not have much option at POE. If they want to flex their muscles, they can do it and deny the admission to any one without proper reason. Even if you have a valid visa and other documents US admission is not always gurenteed. However, 99.9% it wont happen. If the unemployment rate continue like this, it will not be a unusual to hear these kind of stories. Bottom line is IO at POE and consular officers at embassy has tremondus power; it is not easy (or question their decision) to overcome their decision.
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11-04 11:31 AM
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chetanjumani
03-13 12:10 PM
Thank You Googler, EB2 India in April is Dec 2003. Hopefully the logic to arrive at this is what you got to know from your Call with DHS employee.
Hopefully all EB immigrants would be treated equally irrespective of their place of birth.
Hopefully all EB immigrants would be treated equally irrespective of their place of birth.
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nomi
12-12 07:13 PM
nomi,
I am very surprised that there is not as much interest in this thread as I had expected but you are doing great in trying to explore this avenue. I wish I had some of the answers. Keep up the good work.
I will look into it. I think everyone should look into it and try to find some solution. All IV member sends so many fax to US Senate and called all Senators which was good effort from all of us. Now if we send six thousands fax to USCIS same day...Don`t you guy think that USCIS will notice our problems and discuss them in their enternal meeting and ask US Senate or Congress to discuss this issue as early as possible. I know IV is doing great job and I am with IV but all I am saying we should put some pressure on USCIS too so they can see we are in pain and they do their job to get us some relief.
If we do this then , USCIS will also support us too since we are right and we are asking some relief about green card.
Guys come on ...Think about it too. We can do it if IV approve it and everyone help. We should bother USCIS too about our issue so they can contact lawmakers and tell them about our pain. No body care if we don`t speak up.
Please tell me if we send 6000 fax same day don`t you think we will be in IV will be in headline and if we keeping doing same thing then some one will listen our issues and give us some temp. relief.
Please come and Take the lead in this regard and Request USCIS to give us some temp relief because there are lot of people and families suffering coz of this.
Please stop predicting Visa number everyone and deal with reality and stand up and speak about ou issue.
Tell me what don`t you guys think ??
thx.
I am very surprised that there is not as much interest in this thread as I had expected but you are doing great in trying to explore this avenue. I wish I had some of the answers. Keep up the good work.
I will look into it. I think everyone should look into it and try to find some solution. All IV member sends so many fax to US Senate and called all Senators which was good effort from all of us. Now if we send six thousands fax to USCIS same day...Don`t you guy think that USCIS will notice our problems and discuss them in their enternal meeting and ask US Senate or Congress to discuss this issue as early as possible. I know IV is doing great job and I am with IV but all I am saying we should put some pressure on USCIS too so they can see we are in pain and they do their job to get us some relief.
If we do this then , USCIS will also support us too since we are right and we are asking some relief about green card.
Guys come on ...Think about it too. We can do it if IV approve it and everyone help. We should bother USCIS too about our issue so they can contact lawmakers and tell them about our pain. No body care if we don`t speak up.
Please tell me if we send 6000 fax same day don`t you think we will be in IV will be in headline and if we keeping doing same thing then some one will listen our issues and give us some temp. relief.
Please come and Take the lead in this regard and Request USCIS to give us some temp relief because there are lot of people and families suffering coz of this.
Please stop predicting Visa number everyone and deal with reality and stand up and speak about ou issue.
Tell me what don`t you guys think ??
thx.
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sparklinks
02-20 03:15 PM
Its really a good NEWS !!
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waitforevergc
02-14 10:02 AM
this is an irrelavant thread. pls delete this thread.
'ethnic cleansing' is a strong word and shouldnt be used in our context.
thanks.
'ethnic cleansing' is a strong word and shouldnt be used in our context.
thanks.
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anilsal
12-12 09:37 AM
Nobody knows whether congressional action is needed to allow I-485 to be filed during retrogression?
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gc_kaavaali
12-10 05:33 PM
I am sorry to ask you...i think you need to get SSN inorder to work...if u allowed to work on what bases you pay tax...
Hi friends,
I need your help!!!
I'm here at California with L-2 visa. I can stay legally in US but i can not get a SSN number, i can work too.But For a driver license they ask for SSN. Do i still get the Driver License or no?
Thank you very much...
Hi friends,
I need your help!!!
I'm here at California with L-2 visa. I can stay legally in US but i can not get a SSN number, i can work too.But For a driver license they ask for SSN. Do i still get the Driver License or no?
Thank you very much...
paritp
07-18 05:42 PM
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Pineapple
07-28 12:04 PM
In the media, there is a term called the "silly season", where all kinds of "news" crop up to make up for lack of any really interesting or important news during the summer time.
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silly_season )
It seems IV has its own silly season, when nothing else is going on - notice the one-a-day threads on "I-got-a-red-dot", "i-am-depressed" etc. This thread is one more on the list.. take it easy.. :)
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silly_season )
It seems IV has its own silly season, when nothing else is going on - notice the one-a-day threads on "I-got-a-red-dot", "i-am-depressed" etc. This thread is one more on the list.. take it easy.. :)
