Aah_GC
12-12 03:01 PM
Great point -- never thought of it this way before.
addsf345, you are attacking people. Grow up and quit doing that. Attack my views if you want to attack. No one has answered my question yet - If we are so "highly skilled", why no one is listening to us in this country. Kavita, I do not know about your field but in my field, IT, I see so many people, wanting to live in this country at any cost. They would work for any salary, they are OK to get relocated 6 times in a year, they would put up with any BS imposed by desi employers, but they would never go back. Now, I do not think they are "required" here. They are fighting to survive here. Again, nothing wrong in fighting to survive but to say that I am "required" here is a bit far from reality. If they (so called required population fighting for green card) leave tomorrow, nothing will change.
America wants us as a temporary worker, with emphasis on the word temporary. America has no incentive to give us Green Cards. You work for 6 years, pay social security and Medicare and then pack up your bag and go back. Thank you very much, we appreciate your business. Don't you see it written on the wall? Especially those who are in EB3-I category? I can see it!
Is country quota in EB category justified? Hell No. But you know what - if you remove that then entire EB system would be high jacked by Indians, just like they have high jacked H1-B and L-1 visa category. So much so that IMHO H1-B visa has lost its sole purpose. It was designed to give American companies the ability to hire talented people from other countries. It wasn't designed for Desi employers to hire desi consultants and then make those desi consultants run coast to coast looking for projects. Infosys and Satyam can open up shops on US soil and can call themselves American companies but you and I both know the fact, how American those companies are! So, being in EB3-I category, and after living here for almost 8 years on temporary visa, I can feel the pain, but in some part we are also responsible for this mess.
Once again, only grown ups are requested to reply. Thank you.
addsf345, you are attacking people. Grow up and quit doing that. Attack my views if you want to attack. No one has answered my question yet - If we are so "highly skilled", why no one is listening to us in this country. Kavita, I do not know about your field but in my field, IT, I see so many people, wanting to live in this country at any cost. They would work for any salary, they are OK to get relocated 6 times in a year, they would put up with any BS imposed by desi employers, but they would never go back. Now, I do not think they are "required" here. They are fighting to survive here. Again, nothing wrong in fighting to survive but to say that I am "required" here is a bit far from reality. If they (so called required population fighting for green card) leave tomorrow, nothing will change.
America wants us as a temporary worker, with emphasis on the word temporary. America has no incentive to give us Green Cards. You work for 6 years, pay social security and Medicare and then pack up your bag and go back. Thank you very much, we appreciate your business. Don't you see it written on the wall? Especially those who are in EB3-I category? I can see it!
Is country quota in EB category justified? Hell No. But you know what - if you remove that then entire EB system would be high jacked by Indians, just like they have high jacked H1-B and L-1 visa category. So much so that IMHO H1-B visa has lost its sole purpose. It was designed to give American companies the ability to hire talented people from other countries. It wasn't designed for Desi employers to hire desi consultants and then make those desi consultants run coast to coast looking for projects. Infosys and Satyam can open up shops on US soil and can call themselves American companies but you and I both know the fact, how American those companies are! So, being in EB3-I category, and after living here for almost 8 years on temporary visa, I can feel the pain, but in some part we are also responsible for this mess.
Once again, only grown ups are requested to reply. Thank you.
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smuggymba
09-10 06:05 PM
smuggymba
what happened to your earlier PD. I think it was in mid 2004 or so, correct?
no sir, this is my first PERM ever. I used to work for a big 4 consulting firm and they only apply in Eb3 so moved to another American client company. Just filed 140 this week.
what happened to your earlier PD. I think it was in mid 2004 or so, correct?
no sir, this is my first PERM ever. I used to work for a big 4 consulting firm and they only apply in Eb3 so moved to another American client company. Just filed 140 this week.
nixstor
10-15 05:03 PM
And my question is: will sending multiple copies of this make any difference ?? How many copies are really required to get their attention??
Yes, copies of this request from different individuals is going to make a difference. we need to show that the information being requested is needed by a lot of people out there. Just in case if you are wondering, Your application and your FOIA request have got nothing to do with each other.
Yes, copies of this request from different individuals is going to make a difference. we need to show that the information being requested is needed by a lot of people out there. Just in case if you are wondering, Your application and your FOIA request have got nothing to do with each other.
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sodh
07-23 03:56 PM
I had same conversation with my lawyer, got reply as since I-140 is approved recently so don't have to include. Already I-485 applied without employer letter. Please suggest what other options do I have.
Ask him to send an ammedment to the previous application of I-485 which was submitted, and include the Employment offer letter if you can.
Ask him to send an ammedment to the previous application of I-485 which was submitted, and include the Employment offer letter if you can.
more...
perm2gc
01-10 06:04 PM
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=70468#70468
feedfront
09-14 02:03 PM
Well, I have not received RFE mail yet. I have changed my employer because our division was sold to Canadian firm and they moved everything to Montreal.
After changing my employer (in June), I applied for EAD/AP and both got approved within 3-4 weeks w/o any issues/RFE.
I have not filed for AC21 and used EAD to switch job. I think my previous employer might have notified USCIS about H1B case (as I had valid H1B too). Again as per attorney, it takes months if not year for USCIS to work on such notifications.
I had travelled to India last year July and came on AP as I could not get H1B stamp in India. The US consulate took more than few months to approve the my application and by that time I had already come to US on AP as suggested by my employer's attoteny.
After changing my employer (in June), I applied for EAD/AP and both got approved within 3-4 weeks w/o any issues/RFE.
I have not filed for AC21 and used EAD to switch job. I think my previous employer might have notified USCIS about H1B case (as I had valid H1B too). Again as per attorney, it takes months if not year for USCIS to work on such notifications.
I had travelled to India last year July and came on AP as I could not get H1B stamp in India. The US consulate took more than few months to approve the my application and by that time I had already come to US on AP as suggested by my employer's attoteny.
more...
HawaldarNaik
12-10 01:46 PM
I expect things to be more transparent from February onwards (note month of Feb), that is because i beleive that the new leadership will ensure that there is a transparency in the whole process rather than a lottery like approach to the dates.
Also i beleive the whole GC process will be more professional giving folks like us much much more respect than what the current approach is doing....
Also i beleive the whole GC process will be more professional giving folks like us much much more respect than what the current approach is doing....
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h1techSlave
06-12 09:55 PM
Any meaningful change in the current immigration policies are very unlikely.
This is what I have read in "The Week".
"Republican donon revolt: The Republican National Committee has suffered a 40 percent falloff in small-donor contributions, largely because of anger over President Bush's immigration reform push, The Washington Times reported last week. The donor backlash prompted the committee to fire all 65 of its telephone solicitors, RNC sources said. The GOP base is up in arms over Bush's plan to create a method for nearly 12 million illegal immigrants to gain legal status - a process critics consider amnesty. An RNS spokesperson said the firings were due to problems with the phone bank equipment and not from any drop-off in donations."
Cheers,
h1techSlave
This is what I have read in "The Week".
"Republican donon revolt: The Republican National Committee has suffered a 40 percent falloff in small-donor contributions, largely because of anger over President Bush's immigration reform push, The Washington Times reported last week. The donor backlash prompted the committee to fire all 65 of its telephone solicitors, RNC sources said. The GOP base is up in arms over Bush's plan to create a method for nearly 12 million illegal immigrants to gain legal status - a process critics consider amnesty. An RNS spokesperson said the firings were due to problems with the phone bank equipment and not from any drop-off in donations."
Cheers,
h1techSlave
more...
Abhinaym
09-10 11:22 AM
This is taken from the chat page:
To access this area you must have: a.) Over 50 posts b.) Over 30 reputation points
Right! Then it means 30 reputation points and not dots!
Thanks for that.
To access this area you must have: a.) Over 50 posts b.) Over 30 reputation points
Right! Then it means 30 reputation points and not dots!
Thanks for that.
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vin13
02-16 11:46 AM
I am volunteering to coordinate the collection and redemption of airline miles.
Those who would like to donate or in need please PM me with your contact information along with a good time to reach.
if you are donating miles, please also provide the airlines and the number of miles you wish to donate.
I had coordinated this effort during the previous advocacy days and we were successful in helping a few individuals in securing air tickets.
Thanks
Those who would like to donate or in need please PM me with your contact information along with a good time to reach.
if you are donating miles, please also provide the airlines and the number of miles you wish to donate.
I had coordinated this effort during the previous advocacy days and we were successful in helping a few individuals in securing air tickets.
Thanks
more...
h1techSlave
03-17 02:15 PM
I have listened to a couple of speaches by Bernake in NPR. Basically that guy is completely in the blank on how to handle the economy. He simply says, we are in this mess, because the lendors were very lenient. Fed measures such as interest rate cut and pumping money into the banking system is causing the dollar to fall thus further weakening the economy.
I say, we all write to Bernake that some 10, 000 immigrants will buy homes if we all get a GC. 100, 000 may or may not buy a home, but let us just polish the numbers a little bit. 10,000 * 300,000 (average home price) = 1 million billion dollars :D. Actually the total figure is 3 billion $$; enough to give a massive jolt to the sagging economy. I think we should also write to Wall Street journal and all major news paper organizations about this.
In America, people gets recognized when they offers a solution for a problem faced by the country. Whiners are (who write to Bush or Senators) do not get noticed nor are respected.
I say, we all write to Bernake that some 10, 000 immigrants will buy homes if we all get a GC. 100, 000 may or may not buy a home, but let us just polish the numbers a little bit. 10,000 * 300,000 (average home price) = 1 million billion dollars :D. Actually the total figure is 3 billion $$; enough to give a massive jolt to the sagging economy. I think we should also write to Wall Street journal and all major news paper organizations about this.
In America, people gets recognized when they offers a solution for a problem faced by the country. Whiners are (who write to Bush or Senators) do not get noticed nor are respected.
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f16mav
03-18 08:35 AM
I can donate about 30K Continental miles. Please let me know the procedure.
Thanks,
Thanks,
more...
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uma001
10-01 09:51 AM
Guys,
Just an update..I quit the company and joined small consulting firm. Got the project, labor approved, h1b approved (filed in premium) and prewailing wage determination will be started from next week.damn, i should ve done this 4 yrs back. these guys r fast. Never join as fulltime employee if you dont have green card
Just an update..I quit the company and joined small consulting firm. Got the project, labor approved, h1b approved (filed in premium) and prewailing wage determination will be started from next week.damn, i should ve done this 4 yrs back. these guys r fast. Never join as fulltime employee if you dont have green card
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chanduv23
01-30 04:40 PM
Most times, desi employer looks for himself in these cases. These jobs are not obtained by stringent interview processes. Consulting companies and candidates kinda use each other to legally get into the system.
While someone wants to do h1b for their wife, the only way seems to be conssulting companies or MS - OPT - job.
When people have the luxury of approaching consulting companies to do h1b for wives and nephews etc... they must also be ready for crap. Will someone approach Microsoft for doing h1b for wife??
We all know it is not easy to geta job if you don't have good US experiencee and such candidates are a challenge to get placed, thats why consulting companies request u to pay payroll taxes so that they can legally run payroll and keep u on rolls till u get placed.
It is totally upto a person whether they want to deal with this or not.
While someone wants to do h1b for their wife, the only way seems to be conssulting companies or MS - OPT - job.
When people have the luxury of approaching consulting companies to do h1b for wives and nephews etc... they must also be ready for crap. Will someone approach Microsoft for doing h1b for wife??
We all know it is not easy to geta job if you don't have good US experiencee and such candidates are a challenge to get placed, thats why consulting companies request u to pay payroll taxes so that they can legally run payroll and keep u on rolls till u get placed.
It is totally upto a person whether they want to deal with this or not.
more...
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ilikekilo
03-10 12:45 AM
what a shame!!!!!!!!1 Bleep bleep!!!
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dealsnet
08-21 04:40 PM
You didn't say what help you are looking for. Are you looking for any kind of contribution from IV members?.
Here is employement based people. You are not willing to pay for medicals for I-485. You didn't have money. Your sponser not willing to pay also. They may be getting money from the welfare for taking care for that disable person. US govt. will look after the disabled people. In nursing home or by using home nurse. Your compassion have no value for govt. machinary. You may get sympathy from people, not from govt. or USCIS.
What catagory you filed the I-485? What based? Do you have a social security number?
Answer these questions.
Then you will get answers from this forum, if you are looking for answers only.
I received my RFE today and I am totally shocked and in a state of panic because they are asking for a lot of things to be submitted in 30 days and there is absolutely no way at this point that I can get $1000 together for the I-485 Supplement A form, PLUS the money to see a civil surgeon for a medical exam. Those are the two most important forms they are requesting but there are still 3 more forms aside from that. I am also required to show evidence of valid entry which I don't understand. When I came here, I was engaged to be married. I had only my birth certificate and driver's license when I went through customs in 2003. I was not required to have a passport so I have nothing at this point to show them. How do I deal with this to show I did not enter the country illegally? I did not marry my fiance in the end, but I did acquire employment with his relatives and I am still with them. I take care of a disabled person in the home and there is no way they will accept another person at this time. Not after 6 years. This is like family to me now and I can't just expect someone to take my place and do what I do. It doesn't work that way. We already went through the process of offering this position to someone else who was born and raised here and nobody wanted the job. We had one phone call over a 3 week period and nothing came of it. I do not receive monetary wages, I get room and board, therefore I do not have the money I need to submit this supplement A form and the people I live with are not able to just toss out that kind of money either. They also want me to submit evidence that I have maintained non-immigrant status - what the heck is that? I have filed every application that they have requested until now - nothing was ever said about this non-immigrant status stuff. I am confused and totally at a loss.
I am outraged that after not hearing ONE thing from them in over 2 years, that all of a sudden I am supposed to come up with all this stuff, hand over money I don't have and still not be assured my green card.
I was never aware that I had to submit an I-485 Supplement A form - why? Why has no one told me about this before now? I never saw one thing on the I-485 form that I filled out that a supplement was needed. I was not told I had to see a civil surgeon to submit a medical exam and any CS available is 4 hours away in any direction after checking out the list on the USCIS website. The household I live in is not able to just up and go whenever USCIS demands it and they are making our lives very difficult right now.
How do I handle this?
They say I have 33 days to get this cleared up and without employment for wages, this is impossible. Any previous forms I submitted were ones I was prepared for and I had help from a friend at the time, but that was over 2 years ago and I cannot expect other people to just hand over money now, especially $1000.
I am not leaving this household - there is no way I can abandon the person I live with and entrust them to someone else and there is no way this person would ever stand for that.
Is there anything that can be done to either get an extension or get around the I-485 supplement A? I am not as concerned about the civil surgeon exam, but I don't have a clue how much that will cost and again, I don't know how I will get the money to do that either.
I am really ticked with USCIS and their utter lack of correspondence and then expecting me to bleed money from a stone for them. They are not in any hurry to process my application so why do I need to be? I've been here this long, what's another few years?
Has anyone else dealt with this or can you direct me to someone who knows what needs to be done and how?
Here is employement based people. You are not willing to pay for medicals for I-485. You didn't have money. Your sponser not willing to pay also. They may be getting money from the welfare for taking care for that disable person. US govt. will look after the disabled people. In nursing home or by using home nurse. Your compassion have no value for govt. machinary. You may get sympathy from people, not from govt. or USCIS.
What catagory you filed the I-485? What based? Do you have a social security number?
Answer these questions.
Then you will get answers from this forum, if you are looking for answers only.
I received my RFE today and I am totally shocked and in a state of panic because they are asking for a lot of things to be submitted in 30 days and there is absolutely no way at this point that I can get $1000 together for the I-485 Supplement A form, PLUS the money to see a civil surgeon for a medical exam. Those are the two most important forms they are requesting but there are still 3 more forms aside from that. I am also required to show evidence of valid entry which I don't understand. When I came here, I was engaged to be married. I had only my birth certificate and driver's license when I went through customs in 2003. I was not required to have a passport so I have nothing at this point to show them. How do I deal with this to show I did not enter the country illegally? I did not marry my fiance in the end, but I did acquire employment with his relatives and I am still with them. I take care of a disabled person in the home and there is no way they will accept another person at this time. Not after 6 years. This is like family to me now and I can't just expect someone to take my place and do what I do. It doesn't work that way. We already went through the process of offering this position to someone else who was born and raised here and nobody wanted the job. We had one phone call over a 3 week period and nothing came of it. I do not receive monetary wages, I get room and board, therefore I do not have the money I need to submit this supplement A form and the people I live with are not able to just toss out that kind of money either. They also want me to submit evidence that I have maintained non-immigrant status - what the heck is that? I have filed every application that they have requested until now - nothing was ever said about this non-immigrant status stuff. I am confused and totally at a loss.
I am outraged that after not hearing ONE thing from them in over 2 years, that all of a sudden I am supposed to come up with all this stuff, hand over money I don't have and still not be assured my green card.
I was never aware that I had to submit an I-485 Supplement A form - why? Why has no one told me about this before now? I never saw one thing on the I-485 form that I filled out that a supplement was needed. I was not told I had to see a civil surgeon to submit a medical exam and any CS available is 4 hours away in any direction after checking out the list on the USCIS website. The household I live in is not able to just up and go whenever USCIS demands it and they are making our lives very difficult right now.
How do I handle this?
They say I have 33 days to get this cleared up and without employment for wages, this is impossible. Any previous forms I submitted were ones I was prepared for and I had help from a friend at the time, but that was over 2 years ago and I cannot expect other people to just hand over money now, especially $1000.
I am not leaving this household - there is no way I can abandon the person I live with and entrust them to someone else and there is no way this person would ever stand for that.
Is there anything that can be done to either get an extension or get around the I-485 supplement A? I am not as concerned about the civil surgeon exam, but I don't have a clue how much that will cost and again, I don't know how I will get the money to do that either.
I am really ticked with USCIS and their utter lack of correspondence and then expecting me to bleed money from a stone for them. They are not in any hurry to process my application so why do I need to be? I've been here this long, what's another few years?
Has anyone else dealt with this or can you direct me to someone who knows what needs to be done and how?
more...
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desi chala usa
09-18 02:32 PM
Reading the posts about the economy has just shown me how ignorant many of the IV members are.
The economy is just going through it's ~10-year cycle. While it is a concern, it is NOT the end of the world. It just strenghtens USA's position in the world. Once again, it has proved that "if USA sneezes, the world catches the cold". The 10-years economic cycle follows a kind of Darwin's Law of the Fittest. The firms that are bubbled up get washed away, the economy cleans up and rebounds back. The 1990s saw it, the year ~2001 saw it with the dot.com burst and ~2009-2010 is seeing it with the mortgage burst.
While it is each one's perogative as to what you want to invest into (good time to buy stocks, or buy gold), another thing to understand is FDIC does NOT insure just 100K per account in each bank. There are multiple ways to increase this insurance to over $2 million in the same bank by opening different type of accounts or having different beneficiaries. Consult your bank for details.
No amount of govt. intervention can change the economy. It has it's own mind and will take it's own course.
There is no need to panic, pack and run.
Let the economy go through it's colon flush.
Please do not forget during 2001 - 2002 how many H1b friends packed and run away......Please think in terms of H1b people.....245(i) is saving you only up to 180 days.....if the person is crossing 180 days means he is all set for next 10 years to come back to U.S.A.
The economy is just going through it's ~10-year cycle. While it is a concern, it is NOT the end of the world. It just strenghtens USA's position in the world. Once again, it has proved that "if USA sneezes, the world catches the cold". The 10-years economic cycle follows a kind of Darwin's Law of the Fittest. The firms that are bubbled up get washed away, the economy cleans up and rebounds back. The 1990s saw it, the year ~2001 saw it with the dot.com burst and ~2009-2010 is seeing it with the mortgage burst.
While it is each one's perogative as to what you want to invest into (good time to buy stocks, or buy gold), another thing to understand is FDIC does NOT insure just 100K per account in each bank. There are multiple ways to increase this insurance to over $2 million in the same bank by opening different type of accounts or having different beneficiaries. Consult your bank for details.
No amount of govt. intervention can change the economy. It has it's own mind and will take it's own course.
There is no need to panic, pack and run.
Let the economy go through it's colon flush.
Please do not forget during 2001 - 2002 how many H1b friends packed and run away......Please think in terms of H1b people.....245(i) is saving you only up to 180 days.....if the person is crossing 180 days means he is all set for next 10 years to come back to U.S.A.
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unitednations
12-21 10:52 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but you've had unexpired H1B while you were out of work. This is not considered unlawful presence. On top of that, violation of status determination can be done only by the USCIS (IO). If they did not inform you that you violated status, you are good to go.
I don't agree that a person hasn't violated status unless uscis io informs the person.
If a person is here legally but not maintaining status (ie., unexpired I-94 card) but not adhering to the terms and conditions then the I-94 can be revoked by an IO in adjudication of immigration benefits or an immigration judge. This would mainly happen if a person is trying to extend h-1b or change employer and there existing i-94 card is still valid but immigration officer determines person wasn't maintaining status. They will not only deny the I-94 card in the new petition but they can also revoke the existing i-94 card. They very, very rarely do this.
I don't agree that a person hasn't violated status unless uscis io informs the person.
If a person is here legally but not maintaining status (ie., unexpired I-94 card) but not adhering to the terms and conditions then the I-94 can be revoked by an IO in adjudication of immigration benefits or an immigration judge. This would mainly happen if a person is trying to extend h-1b or change employer and there existing i-94 card is still valid but immigration officer determines person wasn't maintaining status. They will not only deny the I-94 card in the new petition but they can also revoke the existing i-94 card. They very, very rarely do this.
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vagish
04-04 03:03 PM
This bill would affect all of us if they apply these same rules when we try to exend or transfer out existing H1s. Does it(the bill) say anything about that?
sometimes they say don't wish, your wish might come true, we are fighting for retrogression thinking that it is the worst possible thing of our lifetime,
guess what if they pass a bill to reduce retrogression along with other provisions,
like the one's mentioned by Durbin's bill and then many would become ineligible for GC at the first place.
Once thing is sure, if the GC or H1B numbers are increased, it will come with some good enforcement measures and some other provisions which would tighten this whole process.
there won't be any free riders any more , many in america are becomming aware of this day by day.
thanks
sometimes they say don't wish, your wish might come true, we are fighting for retrogression thinking that it is the worst possible thing of our lifetime,
guess what if they pass a bill to reduce retrogression along with other provisions,
like the one's mentioned by Durbin's bill and then many would become ineligible for GC at the first place.
Once thing is sure, if the GC or H1B numbers are increased, it will come with some good enforcement measures and some other provisions which would tighten this whole process.
there won't be any free riders any more , many in america are becomming aware of this day by day.
thanks
nomi
12-12 10:19 AM
Nobody knows whether congressional action is needed to allow I-485 to be filed during retrogression?
Look, No body know about it. I think we should contact with some law firm in order to find it out from some reliable sources.
One more thing is what how does USCIS start retrogression. There is no law about it either. This is something USCIs start by it self using "New Rule" option.
I think Core team should look into it. Since we spend so much energy to calling all Senators and we all know the results.
USCIS can allow to file I-485 or they can make some rule without going congress.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is some light in this path for us if we seriously fellow it.
what do you guys think about it ??
thx.
Look, No body know about it. I think we should contact with some law firm in order to find it out from some reliable sources.
One more thing is what how does USCIS start retrogression. There is no law about it either. This is something USCIs start by it self using "New Rule" option.
I think Core team should look into it. Since we spend so much energy to calling all Senators and we all know the results.
USCIS can allow to file I-485 or they can make some rule without going congress.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is some light in this path for us if we seriously fellow it.
what do you guys think about it ??
thx.
chanduv23
09-28 04:28 PM
some of them are doing for votes and some of them doing it for show ratings, but racism and hatred is there in their blood. i dont think they change their stance on this. but if they continue provoking white americans against immigrants like this, one day we have to face same thing what black americans faced in 50's and 60's, and govt is fully ignoring this.
Times are also changing - lets not say it is that bad. Offcourse I do agree it is difficult to change people's stance.
These days we have technological advances, competition, internet has revolutionized the world, globalization, more media outreach etc.... it is just a matter of time before things are put into perspective.
We find it difficult to even convince our own people to join hands for a cause and our own people work against us or do not cooperate, it has been evry diifficult to change minds of our own people, so imaginee someone whos perspectives are opposite from ours, do you think they will change their minds or stance?
There is no option but to help ourselves - I hope our community realises this.
Times are also changing - lets not say it is that bad. Offcourse I do agree it is difficult to change people's stance.
These days we have technological advances, competition, internet has revolutionized the world, globalization, more media outreach etc.... it is just a matter of time before things are put into perspective.
We find it difficult to even convince our own people to join hands for a cause and our own people work against us or do not cooperate, it has been evry diifficult to change minds of our own people, so imaginee someone whos perspectives are opposite from ours, do you think they will change their minds or stance?
There is no option but to help ourselves - I hope our community realises this.
